> Are the bits and bytes that make up our book reviews, photos, and short-form shouts into the void really so important? I say yes. These digital ephemera are part of our legacy.
Death and grief are challenging experiences and I certainly don't want to diminish anyone's suffering. That said, I prefer to take the opposite approach and acknowledge that digital ephemera are truly not very important, with the small exception of a relatively short period (<10 years) after your death. I don't exactly have a "solution" in mind, but I reject the notion that we should preserve online artifacts forever as part of an individual's legacy.
I don't think the author was necessarily suggesting that online artifacts should be preserved forever, but this line stuck out to me and I felt that I didn't agree with the sentiment.
snowwrestler 13 hours ago [-]
Been working through the accounts of a deceased family member over the past few years. They left a password file that made its way to me so I’m able to log in to most things “as them.” My goal is to harvest anything the family might want as a memory: messages, photos, etc., and to clean up (close) all their accounts to prevent identity theft.
A few notes of interesting things I’ve found:
Observing inbound mail for over a year is by far the best way to learn where a person has accounts. I found a ton of services that weren’t listed in the password file by seeing “year end summary” or “we’ve updated our terms” emails. And then of course email access is useful to reset the password and get in.
No one sends more fucking email than politicians. It’s honestly insane how many emails came in daily to this account from all sorts of a candidates, from all over the country. The email list sharing is blatant and rampant. And without regular pruning (unsubscribing, marking as spam), the volume just grows and grows.
Some companies have very handy “close and delete this account” features. Some let you end a paid subscription, but there’s no way to remove the account. In one case I killed a subscription to a paper and then was able to log in as the deceased 4 years later! But many services do prune: in many cases, trying to log in years later failed.
When there was not a “delete account” feature, I filed a support request to delete, explaining that the account holder had passed away. When that did not work I filed a legal request to delete personal data, citing the data privacy law of the state in which the deceased resided. That worked well.
I ended up paying to keep the deceased’s phone number active for a while because I kept finding accounts that were set to send SMS codes to permit login. The deceased was good about security, which ended up costing me, ha. Notably, the mobile provider never cut off the number or seemed to notice that a dead person’s phone was still active. As long as the bill gets paid, they don’t look too closely I guess.
lioeters 3 hours ago [-]
> keep the deceased’s phone number active for a while
I wish I had known this. After my father passed away a few years ago, I had a password list but some accounts required 2FA, and unfortunately I didn't have access to his phone. It locked me out of some services where I would have liked to have archived the data, like photos and posts.
At some point though, data is similar to material possessions - someone has to spend the effort of keeping it archived and accessible. Eventually people move on and the data is either forgotten or lost. And it's OK to let it go, nothing lasts forever.
ed_elliott_asc 42 minutes ago [-]
I’m in the UK and I managed to end up on trumps subscription list begging for money
technothrasher 6 hours ago [-]
> I ended up paying to keep the deceased’s phone number active for a while
I've ported a few numbers that I wanted to keep for a bit without needing the cell plan any longer to a Google Voice account. Then I just forward the number to my own cell phone.
camkego 12 hours ago [-]
> No one sends more fucking email than politicians.
Isn’t it nice how politicians excluded themselves from most of the rules regulating businesses regarding spam and email laws.
BrandoElFollito 3 hours ago [-]
In the US, I guess. Here in France we never get emails from any candidates, this is against the law (not specifically for politicians, for everything)
jamesu 12 hours ago [-]
Not having a proper account deletion method for deceased persons was one of my big pet peeves when sorting out accounts of a family member.
dylan604 11 hours ago [-]
>No one sends more fucking email than politicians.
LinkedIn enters the chat. I have given up trying to turn off email notifications from LinkedIn. One of the last acts I did with my FB account was to finally get it to stop sending emails, yet LI refuses to stop.
hsbauauvhabzb 8 hours ago [-]
LinkedIn mobile app adds new notification classes and assumes you opt in, even if you’ve opted out of all the other spam.
However, email from LinkedIn is not something I’ve had an issue with, personally.
RataNova 6 hours ago [-]
And just another example of how systems aren't really designed with death in mind
zeroq 12 hours ago [-]
A side note about closing accounts.
I keep a list of services I closed or asked for my account to be removed and forgot. Today you even often have to make an account to take a look at a tech demo, because the author tries to avoid abuse of their AI service key they used for such demo.
After about two years many of these services start sending me messages again. Sometimes it turns out that the account is active again.
Recently a recruiter send me an email with a standard cold call: "I have a position that will be a perfect fit for you". I asked where she got my contact and how's that position be a perfect fit, trying to get a feel what she actually knows about me. She said she got the my profile from LinkedIn. When I asked her to post me a link to my profile it turned out the profile was closed. Somehow LI kept the profile and shared my details when she used some recruiter features. ;)
WhyNotHugo 6 hours ago [-]
I ensured that my LinkedIn email was set to private and set it to a unique address not used anywhere else.
I still get emails from recruiters a couple of times a month.
LinkedIn leaks your private data even if instructed not to do so.
RandomBacon 11 hours ago [-]
LinkedIn also starts spamming you after X months/years since you last clicked "unsubscribe" (at least twice that I can recall, so probably "years")
They are absolute trash, scum of the earth, when it comes to respecting users (Nextdoor does the same, they did it more often at first, I think every six months).
silisili 10 hours ago [-]
I still remember when I first signed up for LinkedIn years ago on my phone. Following the default flow and not paying much attention, it sent connection invitations to seemingly everyone I'd ever had gmail correspondence with.
Sure it's my fault for not paying attention, but what kind of default is that?
porridgeraisin 5 hours ago [-]
> what kind of default is that?
The Microsoft kind
scott_w 4 hours ago [-]
LinkedIn was doing this long before MS bought them. Abusing your contact list is their specialty and one of the ways they grew so quickly.
jwalton 37 minutes ago [-]
This is why the LinkedIn app is and will always be banned from my phone.
DebtDeflation 4 hours ago [-]
A guy I worked with at a former employer died around 2015. Every year, for almost a decade, I get a notification from LinkedIn to congratulate him on his work anniversary.
summermusic 10 hours ago [-]
My password manager has an emergency access feature[0] which allows my spouse to gain access to the vault (and all the passwords, passkeys, PINs, etc. in there) after 7 days. I also set this feature up with my parents so I will be able to handle their digital legacy too.
(I had a hard time fitting this thread into the blog post and eventually cut it)
Dalewyn 12 hours ago [-]
At the risk of possibly sounding crass, the practical solution is to simply never tell them of the decedent's passing.
Unless the matter of concern is a legal or financial one (eg: bank accounts, pensions, insurance, etc.), quite literally nothing and nobody else requires knowledge that the account holder passed away.
Never tell Valve that your gamer dad passed away and they will be none the wiser and noone will have any problems as you "inherit" his account and its associated games. You're not trying to defraud Social Security as a 150 year old, after all (...right?).
account42 2 hours ago [-]
This might work for the first generation of steam users for now, but eventually they might require some kind of verification for old Steam accounts. Also remember that Steam is providing two things - a license for the games and a service to download them. I wouldn't expect a court to agree that a relatively low one-time fee obliges Steam to provide your or your heirs a service in perpetuity.
Why take the chance for games that you can get DRM-free and transfer independently from some live service.
polski-g 11 hours ago [-]
Yes that is a claim they have made, but unless they show up in probate court to defend that position, they will do what the judge orders them to in a default judgement.
RandomBacon 11 hours ago [-]
Have you gotten a probate court to order Steam to transfer games, which they then followed?
polski-g 8 hours ago [-]
I am still alive, so no, I have not.
amatecha 7 hours ago [-]
Sadly true. I don't scroll through the offline friends because sometimes I don't want a reminder of THAT many people who I can no longer message or play games with. One old friend, him having not responded about the game key I sent him on Steam was how I started to wonder, searched his name, and found his obituary :(
RataNova 6 hours ago [-]
It's weird how something as simple as a friends list can turn into a memorial over time
fakedang 8 hours ago [-]
Oddly in the same boat.
asynchronousx 14 hours ago [-]
Damn that’s sad.
alkonaut 6 hours ago [-]
I intend to make sure people know how to use my email. With that, and my phone, they should have access to all accounts indirectly via password resets through that email address. I won't bother with a long digital will or handing over a password manager or anything like that, this sounds like way too much complexity. One account - the email.
I kind of wish there was an inactive account setting as default, where every account was disabled after 1 year of inactivity (but keept the user name to prevent squatting), then sent a yearly reminder and deleted them after 10 years or something.
eadmund 10 hours ago [-]
An old friend passed away a few years ago, and sadly all of our Facebook messages have disappeared forever. I really wish that I could read them again. It’s very sad.
Oh well.
palmotea 6 hours ago [-]
You might be able to find them in your account's data dump. I have a friend who deleted their Facebook account, but their messages still show up in the dump as "Facebook User". Check <zip file>/your_facebook_activity/messages/inbox.
pjmlp 5 hours ago [-]
Nothing, I still get random notifications from folks that sadly aren't around anylonger, but no one has disabled their social accounts.
RataNova 6 hours ago [-]
This article really resonated with me. A few years ago, I lost a friend, and their dormant social media accounts became these strange digital echoes... like finding an old voicemail you forgot existed.
e40 3 days ago [-]
My son gets my 1pw master password and yubikey and inherits all my online accounts.
WillAdams 13 hours ago [-]
That is my plan as well --- there's an envelope in the safe which has my e-mail password which should allow taking over the accounts, and maintain access to my GOG.com game library, my Amazon Kindle books, and my Amazon Music --- curious if there will be any case law in-between now and then.
account42 2 hours ago [-]
For GOG the safer solution would be to download and backup the offline installers. Might even become useful in your own lifetime.
elzbardico 12 hours ago [-]
I made arrangements for my family to have access to my accounts and instructions on deleting most of them, with special emphasis on linked-in.
8 hours ago [-]
keernan 11 hours ago [-]
I can't even guess at the number of accounts I haven't touched in 10+ years.
metalman 13 hours ago [-]
presumably there are a great and growing number of people who will have no one to clean up there online presence, and depending on how things are set up, and how much money is floating there, possibly earning, then itd hard to say how long things might last.
where things will get tricky is with personal AI, that could in such a case, become imortal if so instructed, or rather, given the scale and general wierdness of things, there must be something like that happening now
so one more trueism is gone, you CAN take it with you when you die
dylan604 11 hours ago [-]
I wonder if the sites will do something internally to see that the provided DOB for the account is now > 100 years old, and just start silently deactivating those accounts. Then again, why would they care? If deceased person's account becomes hacked and then taken use by some identity theft type situation, why would that platform care? It's just a user to them and continues to be potential revenue generating.
FpUser 13 hours ago [-]
All will go to my daughter
hlehmann 14 hours ago [-]
My brother passed a few years ago. I was able to "memorialize" his Facebook account, or whatever they call that term. Found a link on their web site, uploaded a scanned copy of the death certificate, and within a day or so the title to his page was changed to something like "Remembering Joe Blow..." People could still post on his page, but nobody could log in under his name (just in case his account got hacked or something). It was pretty easy to do.
telesilla 6 hours ago [-]
Wouldn't it be fairly easy to fake a certificate? I wonder what process they have in place to avoid false flagging.
aeonik 1 hours ago [-]
Yeah, and Facebook is the least of your concerns.
Defcon talk about the security of death certificates, and what happens to your life if you are targeted by this attack.
My mother recently passed away after a long battle with dementia. Apparently when she would forget an account existed or she could not log in she would create another account. She had multiple email addresses and Facebook profiles that I know of.
I’ve been able to get Facebook to close a couple of her profiles but for the rest they keep asking for the same documentation over and over again (death certificate and funeral booklet) but will not take any action.
vtashkov 4 days ago [-]
[dead]
scoperesolution 7 hours ago [-]
Uh, well there professor, the company notices nobody has signed in for awhile, and the account is deleted. Your welcome.
efdee 5 hours ago [-]
When posting snark it's always wise to make sure your post doesn't have any embarrassing grammatical mistakes or spelling errors.
Death and grief are challenging experiences and I certainly don't want to diminish anyone's suffering. That said, I prefer to take the opposite approach and acknowledge that digital ephemera are truly not very important, with the small exception of a relatively short period (<10 years) after your death. I don't exactly have a "solution" in mind, but I reject the notion that we should preserve online artifacts forever as part of an individual's legacy.
I don't think the author was necessarily suggesting that online artifacts should be preserved forever, but this line stuck out to me and I felt that I didn't agree with the sentiment.
A few notes of interesting things I’ve found:
Observing inbound mail for over a year is by far the best way to learn where a person has accounts. I found a ton of services that weren’t listed in the password file by seeing “year end summary” or “we’ve updated our terms” emails. And then of course email access is useful to reset the password and get in.
No one sends more fucking email than politicians. It’s honestly insane how many emails came in daily to this account from all sorts of a candidates, from all over the country. The email list sharing is blatant and rampant. And without regular pruning (unsubscribing, marking as spam), the volume just grows and grows.
Some companies have very handy “close and delete this account” features. Some let you end a paid subscription, but there’s no way to remove the account. In one case I killed a subscription to a paper and then was able to log in as the deceased 4 years later! But many services do prune: in many cases, trying to log in years later failed.
When there was not a “delete account” feature, I filed a support request to delete, explaining that the account holder had passed away. When that did not work I filed a legal request to delete personal data, citing the data privacy law of the state in which the deceased resided. That worked well.
I ended up paying to keep the deceased’s phone number active for a while because I kept finding accounts that were set to send SMS codes to permit login. The deceased was good about security, which ended up costing me, ha. Notably, the mobile provider never cut off the number or seemed to notice that a dead person’s phone was still active. As long as the bill gets paid, they don’t look too closely I guess.
I wish I had known this. After my father passed away a few years ago, I had a password list but some accounts required 2FA, and unfortunately I didn't have access to his phone. It locked me out of some services where I would have liked to have archived the data, like photos and posts.
At some point though, data is similar to material possessions - someone has to spend the effort of keeping it archived and accessible. Eventually people move on and the data is either forgotten or lost. And it's OK to let it go, nothing lasts forever.
I've ported a few numbers that I wanted to keep for a bit without needing the cell plan any longer to a Google Voice account. Then I just forward the number to my own cell phone.
Isn’t it nice how politicians excluded themselves from most of the rules regulating businesses regarding spam and email laws.
LinkedIn enters the chat. I have given up trying to turn off email notifications from LinkedIn. One of the last acts I did with my FB account was to finally get it to stop sending emails, yet LI refuses to stop.
However, email from LinkedIn is not something I’ve had an issue with, personally.
I keep a list of services I closed or asked for my account to be removed and forgot. Today you even often have to make an account to take a look at a tech demo, because the author tries to avoid abuse of their AI service key they used for such demo.
After about two years many of these services start sending me messages again. Sometimes it turns out that the account is active again.
Recently a recruiter send me an email with a standard cold call: "I have a position that will be a perfect fit for you". I asked where she got my contact and how's that position be a perfect fit, trying to get a feel what she actually knows about me. She said she got the my profile from LinkedIn. When I asked her to post me a link to my profile it turned out the profile was closed. Somehow LI kept the profile and shared my details when she used some recruiter features. ;)
I still get emails from recruiters a couple of times a month.
LinkedIn leaks your private data even if instructed not to do so.
They are absolute trash, scum of the earth, when it comes to respecting users (Nextdoor does the same, they did it more often at first, I think every six months).
Sure it's my fault for not paying attention, but what kind of default is that?
The Microsoft kind
[0] https://bitwarden.com/help/emergency-access/
On the topic of Steam, according to their terms of service, you buy non-transferable licenses for access, and they will argue you can't inherit the games of a deceased person: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/05/after-you-die-your-st... . This follows a tradition of digital media providers asserting deep control over things that you might think you "own" : https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18am...
(I had a hard time fitting this thread into the blog post and eventually cut it)
Unless the matter of concern is a legal or financial one (eg: bank accounts, pensions, insurance, etc.), quite literally nothing and nobody else requires knowledge that the account holder passed away.
Never tell Valve that your gamer dad passed away and they will be none the wiser and noone will have any problems as you "inherit" his account and its associated games. You're not trying to defraud Social Security as a 150 year old, after all (...right?).
Why take the chance for games that you can get DRM-free and transfer independently from some live service.
I kind of wish there was an inactive account setting as default, where every account was disabled after 1 year of inactivity (but keept the user name to prevent squatting), then sent a yearly reminder and deleted them after 10 years or something.
Oh well.
Defcon talk about the security of death certificates, and what happens to your life if you are targeted by this attack.
https://youtu.be/9FdHq3WfJgs?si=gZ0f0ZmWSKlmCd1j
I’ve been able to get Facebook to close a couple of her profiles but for the rest they keep asking for the same documentation over and over again (death certificate and funeral booklet) but will not take any action.
but thanks for making me smile.