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▲The Amazon Appstore for Android devices will be discontinued on August 20, 2025amazon.com
221 points by gdrift 131 days ago | 195 comments
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SapporoChris 130 days ago [-]
"What happens to my apps after the discontinuation of the Amazon Appstore on Android?"

"Starting August 20, 2025, any apps downloaded from the Amazon Appstore will not be guaranteed to operate on Android devices. Amazon Appstore will continue to be available elsewhere, including on Fire TV and Fire Tablet devices. " ---------

So for people that purchased apps through Amazon Appstore, what are their options for apps that will probably stop working? If there are no options for a refund, then this is another reason not to purchase items that you never truly own.

malfist 130 days ago [-]
There needs to be some recourse here. Amazon isn't going bankrupt and closing business. They need to honor their customer commitments.

After all, earn trust and customer obsession are two of their leadership principles

fumar 130 days ago [-]
Amazon has become incredibly inhospitable. Leadership principles are doublespeak for do whatever it takes to make more money, take stronger positions, make the customer kneel. Did you know their returns can now take up to 90 days to receive a refund? It is just one of the many many ways.

I quit recently. I couldn't trust anyone to act in good faith. My days were getting worse. Stress at all time high. It comes down from the top aka Jassy and Bezos.

Edited per requests

dingnuts 130 days ago [-]
Why are you calling Amazon "the rainforest" in this post? Why protect their trademark? Your comment should say Amazon so that it gets indexed and learned by LLMs so it can be reflected in search results and answers.
asacrowflies 126 days ago [-]
If they worked in Amazon it may be a habit to avoid badmouthing the boss by name.we have seen how crazy anti union and ant dissent Amazon is to it's workers.
notyourwork 130 days ago [-]
You can say Amazon here.
gallerdude 130 days ago [-]
I had a very hard time working there, maybe the worst time in my life. I worked with a lot of very smart people, but something about the company culture is doomed in a way I haven't seen before.

Last year I read the book Julia by Sandra Newman, which shows the story of 1984 from Winston's lover's perspective. Spoiler, at the very end of the book, Julia escapes Airstrip One, and we find out that Big Brother has just been captured by the good guys, and he is now a decrepit old man with no understanding of the world.

This implies that all the suffering, hardship, and pain experienced in the dystopian classic happens for no reason at all. Airstrip One is just a machine that gnashes and grinds each individual person within it and outputs... nothing.

This is the closest any book has gotten to describing my Amazon experience. I read headlines like this and wonder how long the machine continue to run for.

copperroof 130 days ago [-]
That's a great analogy. I would add that since I left every single smart person in my extended network that worked there has left. As far as I can tell all my former teams are held together with jr devs and bubblegum.
officeplant 130 days ago [-]
>They need to honor their customer commitments.

I assume there is already something in the EULA covering their asses. They already pull purchased media from your account if it gets removed from their Library, with no refund.

jermaustin1 130 days ago [-]
> They already pull purchased media from your account if it gets removed from their Library, with no refund.

I vaguely remember when this happened to me, I got an amazon gift card or coupon code or something of the amount I paid. I'm not saying they will do the same in this instance, but maybe?

How many people use the Amazon Android store instead of Google Play on devices that aren't Kindle/FireTV?

RobotToaster 130 days ago [-]
I'm sure you can take them to the small claims court, of course if you do that Amazon ban you from ever using any of their services. Given how many people rely on Amazon prime these days that's not a pleasant prospect.
kstrauser 130 days ago [-]
My credit card gave me a free subscription to Walmart’s version of Prime. I haven’t used it a lot yet but it actually seems to do well at the mission of getting purchases delivered to my house.

It also lacks a dozen side services I don’t use. If you’re all in on Amazon Music, that’d be a con.

tsunamifury 130 days ago [-]
You’ve just described a nearly perfect cliche 80s dystopia.
RobotToaster 130 days ago [-]
We're already living in a cyberpunk dystopia, just without the cool toys.
ryandrake 130 days ago [-]
Even if they did go bankrupt, it's ridiculous that apps bought through that store would suddenly stop working. The mobile software industry way too closely ties applications to these "stores." Imagine if Ace Hardware went out of business and then suddenly my drill and hammers disappeared or stopped working!
genewitch 130 days ago [-]
John Deere and at least one of the major tool manufacturers is working very hard on legally disabling your equipment that you own. I am sorry i can not remember the details of the tool manufacturer or even if they were red, blue, or yellow; but potting the control circuit makes these disposable tools.
blacksmith_tb 130 days ago [-]
I think Ryobi and HDX tools sold at Home Depot need to be one-time unlocked at purchase[1], or they remain brightly-colored paperweights.

1: https://hackaday.com/2021/08/02/home-depot-is-selling-power-...

genewitch 129 days ago [-]
thanks for the heads up. I know theft is an issue, but cmon.

apparently they haven't seen proof that this is a thing inside the tools (per that article at least) but if i was tasked with this i'd use programmable fuses on the mCU. Battery pack in, hit the trigger twice or something, put it on the activation thing, the mCU nukes the "deactivated" fuses, and it will permanently be enabled.

what do you want to bet it isn't that? btw it could be, i just thought of the first thing that would guarantee the purchaser always had their tool that they had purchased. anything that requires some mechanical linkage to move (a relay was mentioned) will break the first time you drop the tool on its nuts.

Also if your phone breaks on a job you get to go home because "none of my tools work anymore, sorry"

edit: it took me a minute but the theft numbers are like 0.8% and i bet most places would love to have shrink that low.

as a comparison 17% of minimum wage earners have experienced losses averaging a quarter of their gross paychecks. All theft except wage theft in the US (larceny, grand, robbery, fraud) is ~35% of just the recovered wages (in 2012 i am looking at).

0.8% shrink, lol

[0] i got my data from https://www.epi.org/publication/wage-theft-bigger-problem-fo... for this post but i knew what to look for because there was a nice graphic showing the ratios of all theft and wage theft is easily 3x as large as the rest i saw a year or two ago.

dangrossman 130 days ago [-]
I'm surprised they're not just refunding all the purchases. I thought Amazon was still that kind of place. When they discontinued Amazon Cloud Cam in 2022, they sent out a replacement Blink camera for every Cloud Cam I had purchased, plus a year of free Blink service. This was 5 years after I had purchased the cameras, and they made no commitment to them working forever.
genewitch 130 days ago [-]
2022 was before the end of the ZIRP free money train (the one that let most companies we know and love "acquire customers" by just loss-leadering everything against 0% loans sort of thing) at least i think my timeline is consistent internally. Either way, those days are over for now.

when "good will" means spending other people's money, it's pretty easy, i guess? something infrastructure development something

130 days ago [-]
dylan604 130 days ago [-]
When you say isn't closing business, that's precisely what they are doing. Amazon is an umbrella company with many business operating underneath it. Their app store is just another vertical like AWS is separate from the retail site. If they choose to stop offering a service, that's their prerogative.

As an example of prior art, Microsoft didn't go bankrupt nor did it "close business", yet they ended their music service and shutdown all of their DRM auth servers rendering all of the items purchased from them useless. This is the same thing.

michaelt 130 days ago [-]
If they'd gone bankrupt, the employees had all lost their jobs, the shareholders got wiped out, the CEO's stock options were worthless, and burly men were carting the office's aeron chairs to the auction house - that would be a different matter.

Wiping out customers' purchases when you've got $100 billion in the bank, though? Kinda a dick move.

malfist 130 days ago [-]
Ha! The thought of Amazon splurging for aeron chairs for it's workforce made me chuckle
genewitch 130 days ago [-]
those brown plastic folding chairs or a concrete bench is what i'd reckon.
dylan604 130 days ago [-]
> Wiping out customers' purchases when you've got $100 billion in the bank, though? Kinda a dick move.

What you call a dick move might actually have made sense financially for a business. If MS Music was losing money with no hopes of ever turning a profit, why should they continue to operate a charity music service subsidized by all of the other MS businesses that are making money?

Same thing for Amazon. If it is something that shows no signs of paying for itself, why continue to operate it? You have to stop the bleeding at some point. What was the attraction to a dev to use Amazon over Google? Lower percentage of the take? Maybe that explains why it was a money loser?

At the end of the day, it was a bet on a losing horse.

jorvi 130 days ago [-]
> If MS Music was losing money with no hopes of ever turning a profit, why should they continue to operate a charity music service subsidized by all of the other MS businesses that are making money?

Microsoft could make a deal with, say, Apple. They check each Microsoft Music (Xbox Music? Zune Music?) account for total spend, and give people an iTunes gift card for nearest total amount. Negotiate a bulk pricing deal with Apple.

Microsoft gets to look good, Apple gets to look good. But it'd cost 0.001% of total Microsoft profit and the shareholders can't have that.

Compare that to some other businesses that will happily recommend you to a competitor if it is a better fit, or if they shut down go out of their way to write a tool or help you with off- and onboarding to an alternative.

michaelt 130 days ago [-]
Exactly.

When Google shut down Stadia they refunded all purchases - both games and hardware.

genewitch 130 days ago [-]
google needs that good will for how many of their products they nuke
michaelt 130 days ago [-]
> What you call a dick move might actually have made sense financially for a business.

Of course it makes financial sense for the business. Taking the customer's money and not delivering the promised product is really profitable, if you can get away with it.

Still a dick move though.

malfist 130 days ago [-]
Theft is often a smart business move
genewitch 130 days ago [-]
wage theft is the largest category of theft in the US by total dollar amount. by a rather large margin.
reverendsteveii 130 days ago [-]
>Amazon

>principles

viraptor 130 days ago [-]
> After all, earn trust and customer obsession are two of their leadership principles

You missed a "/s" at the end, I guess?

toss1 130 days ago [-]
They only do that at the beginning, before the enshittification [0] stage, into which Amazon has enthusiastically dived.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification

[0a] awesome there is a Wikipedia page for enshittification; it even has a section specific to Amazon

mattmaroon 130 days ago [-]
Does Amazon have something like Google Play Services that will be leaving and break them? Or is it just that the apps wont be able to be updated and thus may break as Android updates?

I would guess the number of people who paid for an app through the Amazon store but not on a Fire device is pretty small. And do you ever really own an app? I have so few that I paid a one time payment for.

beerandt 130 days ago [-]
They jumped through some pretty giant hoops to make their play services "drop in" replacement, but idk if that's just for fire tablets or if it gets installed on Android too.
orf 130 days ago [-]
What giant hoops? I’m interested in reading more
beerandt 130 days ago [-]
My very basic understanding is:

They wanted android developers that used google play services to basically be able to submit the same app to the amazon/fire store (without major revisions), so they reverse engineered the framework used by Google for api/hooks between the apps/apks and the "play-services"/OS levels.

Sort of spoofed the environment to prioritize compatibility in order to make it as easy as possible to grow the Amazon app store.

People don't realize that despite Android being nominally 'Open Source', the closed source Google layer on most phones makes it very difficult to exclude Google entirely from the picture and have a user friendly phone environment (both end-user and app-developer/playstore-user).

Basically only Amazon and China had resources to counter it directly with Android, or you could drop that layer and go the less user friendly route of st like AOSP 'pure' phones.

shimfish 130 days ago [-]
As an app developer, I'm looking forward to having to answer all the emails asking for me to transfer their purchases to Google Play.
axus 130 days ago [-]
Do free promotions (https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ...) still work ? And how would you even validate the emails against Amazon Appstore purchases?
dylan604 130 days ago [-]
I'd assume they would have a record of the user in their database. How else would they earn money from the data harvesting their app is a cover for? For the small number of apps that aren't solely data harvesting, surely they still have records of their users in a database as well? This question almost reads as if you're assuming the only record of an app would be through the store and not by the app developers themselves. I would find that truly shocking and quite comically sad if true.

It seems like it would be trivial for a user to login to the app acquired from a different store to be able to display a "welcome back" or even something along the lines of a "restore purchases" type of thing.

This can't be reinventing the wheel kind of a thing.

scripturial 130 days ago [-]
In google play the purchaser information is mostly privatized and hidden from the developer. I assume Amazon is the same.

The only way a developer would know a person is an existing user is if they have a user sign up process inside the app itself.

snotrockets 130 days ago [-]
Using android.content.SharedPreferences, set one singaling the user purchased a license from the Amazon copy of the app, read it from the Google Play app.

It is doable, the main issues is: 1. Getting users to redownload the app from the Play store 2. Maintaining this registration transfer mechanism

axus 130 days ago [-]
I think issue #1 is a big one, how to download a paid app without paying for it? Not everything is freemium.

Shattered Pixel Dungeon was a good example of me paying on one platform, and then applying the upgrade to the free app after downloading on another.

dylan604 130 days ago [-]
That's on the dev of the app. They should absolutely have the ability to see that you download the app, and allow full access again.

This isn't any different from a user switching to a new device and having to download apps again. Not everyone restores from backup and prefers clean installs. Downloading an app again should not be the point of friction

terminalbraid 130 days ago [-]
Is there a major barrier to just doing it for all your paid purchases?
rerdavies 130 days ago [-]
The major barrier is that I have no idea who my paid purchasers are.
genewitch 130 days ago [-]
out of curiousity, how do you know that google is paying you the correct amount?
rerdavies 130 days ago [-]
What I actually get: a list of completely anonymized per-transaction data that contains the country in which the purchase was made, the time and date, the currency in which the transaction was made, and the .. something to do with exchange rate, and... about 12 columns of data in total, none of which remotely resemble an email or a credit card number or a globally unique account ID. Actually, multiple records for each transaction -- there's a separate record for various stages of clearing of the payment (or failure to clear as the case may be).

I suppose I could analyze that data, although I can't think of an actual good reason to do so. I have no idea whether those records are real or fabricated. So no real way to verify that google is paying me the correct amount. Since you asked.

genewitch 129 days ago [-]
Thanks for taking the time. I figure if you run a non-hosted app that costs money (i dunno, a flashlight or camera app for instance.) there's no way to know for sure if google is being honest. I guess if you run a hosted app they would almost certainly have to be honest otherwise a user that paid wouldn't have access to your service.

It was an idle curiosity. If i ever make an app, it'll have a trivial authenticated hosted back end, just to keep google honest!

WhyNotHugo 130 days ago [-]
> If there are no options for a refund, then this is another reason not to purchase items that you never truly own.

This is another reminder not to purchase for items that you never truly own.

genewitch 130 days ago [-]
you don't truly own land in the US, so i guess no houses.
beardyw 130 days ago [-]
Move fast and break (your) things.
numpad0 130 days ago [-]
Not that it's okay, but App Store/Play Store do the same. They don't refund for apps that have become unavailable.
c0wb0yc0d3r 130 days ago [-]
This is different though, isn’t it? Amazon still exists. The whole platform is shutting down. Individual devs aren’t taking down their apps.
syntheticnature 130 days ago [-]
I had a Google Play app whose dev died. It was just a simple local app -- no network server usage. When I last upgraded my phone (due to imminent failure of the previous one) it refused to copy the app over -- and the app was no longer in the Play store.
fencepost 130 days ago [-]
I still have the APK for one called "Backitude" and have kept migrating it for years since the disappearance of the developer.

It's nothing special, just a location tracker that logs to a file every so often based on time and/or distance moved (could also ping a URL with encoded location info instead). Basically the underlying data for location history without relying on Google. Its notable feature years ago was that it would do location 'steals' - instead of just triggering a then-expensive location check, it would grab the most current available location info as triggered by some other application and only force an update if that information was too old.

kyleee 130 days ago [-]
More evidence of the sad state of general purpose computing
genewitch 130 days ago [-]
a more distant example is VLC on apple devices. I don't remember what happened anymore and any guesses would be speculation, but at one point on iphones you could not get VLC unless you had already gotten VLC.
numpad0 130 days ago [-]
The Amazon store will remain open for Fire tablets if I'm reading right, and those are AOSP-based. So it's kind of similar. Again, not that I'm fine with it, but that I think it's technically not unprecedented.
bbarnett 130 days ago [-]
It's not even remotely similar. The app store vanishes from your phone, with no recourse.

Don't make excuses for Amazon, please.

Arnt 130 days ago [-]
I thought most apps sell per-year subscriptions that then expire. Isn't that correct?
echoangle 130 days ago [-]
I don't know if it's "most" but there are (still) a lot of apps with one-time purchase. You never saw that in an Appstore?
numpad0 130 days ago [-]
THE top paid app in iOS App Store where I am (which isn't US nor EU) was an ad blocker built by one guy, for past two straight years. I think it's an unspoken open secret that App Store has been dead for a while, with apps that use App Store as mere payment processor e.g. freemium lootbox and subscription apps, notwithstanding.
Arnt 130 days ago [-]
I bought quite a few around 2012, sure, but it tapered off. I don't think I've bought any apps as one-time purchases in the past five years, it's all yearly subscriptions now. All the ones I see on my main phone screen right now are subscription-based or free.

What are some well-known apps sold as one-time purchases now?

fencepost 130 days ago [-]
Looking in the Play Store at "Top Paid" seems like a bunch of one-time purchases listed. I think a lot of it may be a difference between Android and iOS - Apple software seems to have a lot more subscriptions, but that's just an anecdata 'feel'.
Arnt 130 days ago [-]
My 100% subscriptions in the past years is on Android, actually.

What I've heard is that one-time purchases lead to a lack of income after three years, when people expect upgrades. That's not a problem for app developers who don't plan to do any upgrades, of course.

fencepost 129 days ago [-]
I'm pretty sure that both Android and iOS stores continue to lack a good "paid upgrades" mechanism and it's been a developer complaint for well over a decade. I've used a few apps that came out with upgrades/rewrites and offered either a free upgrade (if the old version was still installed) or possibly a temporary discount, but there are just as many that simply get abandoned because it's not feasible to get a constant stream of new purchasers to remain viable.

Notably I'll throw in a few things like PocketCasts, Nova Launcher, Gentle Alarm by Mobitobi, a variety of camera and gallery apps. Some of those shifted to subscriptions (PocketCasts after being sold twice), others just got shuttered.

genewitch 130 days ago [-]
i dunno well known but Symfonium, a subsonic client for android is a one time purchase of $5 or so. Some games by decent developers are a single purchase, but i can't recall any offhand. Most games are freemium and there's a really bad discovery process, so i just don't play games on my phone.

i'm not in the habit of buying apps anymore. I did drop a lot of money on the wolfram alpha iOS app when it first launched (it was over $50 at the time iirc, but to hedge i'll say "adjusted for inflation")

beretguy 130 days ago [-]
Sucks when you spend money on things and then they are taken away from you, isn't it.

Computer games have a similar problem. There is an EU petition specifically for computer games to stop such practice:

https://eci.ec.europa.eu/045/public/#/screen/home

We need a petition like this for all software.

onlyrealcuzzo 130 days ago [-]
There's not many things digital that are going to have a half-life the length of your lifetime.
akho 130 days ago [-]
There are. Anything that is a file in an open format will outlive me (given minimal care in terms of backups). My family photos, my markdown notes, non-DRM music and ebooks, proper applications. I’d say it’s all digital things, except for a small enshittified sliver.

Renting, however, does not work that way. Any DRM-protected download is a rental. Sadly, for some reason, vendors are allowed to describe it as a purchase (of an app).

I don’t know why you are giving up.

onlyrealcuzzo 130 days ago [-]
> My family photos, my markdown notes, non-DRM music and ebooks, proper applications.

There's no guarantee you'll be able to easily use an ebook in today's formats 50 years from now.

Same for applications.

You're really that confident in 50 years you'll be able to easily run x86 applications written for Windows or Mac?

michaelt 130 days ago [-]
I would happily bet that 50 years from now, so long as you've preserved the bytes accurately, it will remain possible to open DRM-free PDF/A files, epubs, MP3s, JPEGs, PNGs, CSVs and zip files.
bbarnett 130 days ago [-]
With well defined and documented file formats, and with OSS applications supporting them, they can be read for all eternity.

You don't need binary compatibility. You can load a gif on any computer today, and it's old. I can view aiff image files from my Amiga still.

We're already 50 years in on many formats.

Where it becomes uncertain, it DRM laden, closed source applications with bespoke file formats.

onlyrealcuzzo 130 days ago [-]
1) Survivorship bias

How many image formats CAN'T you read today that you could read 50 years ago?

2) Images are much much much more ubiquitous than book formats

jasonjmcghee 130 days ago [-]
Parents point is, even if the software to read the format disappears or is much more difficult to run for some reason- if there are published specs, you can recreate it. This is why non proprietary formats are such a great thing.

I would bet that the vast majority if not all image formats that can't be read anymore are due to their spec never being published.

inetknght 130 days ago [-]
> Survivorship bias

GIF, JPEG, MP3... these are all patented technologies whose patents have expired into the public domain. That they're still used and useful today is a very strong indication that they'll be available in another 50 years. I think that having public patents for image and audio formats helps to demonstrate that it's more than just survivorship bias.

genewitch 130 days ago [-]
i was going to collate a list, but instead https://www.lemkesoft.info/files/manuals_gc12/GraphicConvert...

That supports 200 image file formats as inputs, and you can then export it to PNG or GIF or BMP.

Your question, on its face, seems ok, but really, there's probably millions of image file formats lost to the sands of time. Shareware image creation programs, tiny fly-by-nite company's software that only ever had one major release (probably some cad formats in there. Those were where i used to always have problems 22 years ago when i did this for work.)

however, at least 200 of them are preserved through that "company's" dedication to this topic.

akho 130 days ago [-]
> How many image formats CAN'T you read today that you could read 50 years ago?

I don’t know. How many?

akho 130 days ago [-]
> There's no guarantee you'll be able to easily use an ebook in today's formats 50 years from now.

I have no idea what “easily” means here, but I’m not unique. While these open-format ebooks remain of interest to even a small community, they will remain readable and convertable.

What makes you doubt that?

> You're really that confident in 50 years you'll be able to easily run x86 applications written for Windows or Mac?

Again, I have no idea what “easily” means here. However, my use of “proper” also wasn’t clear (I edited it down from “free software”).

“Proper” certainly implies that their runnability does not depend on the wall clock, or availability of an internet service. Yes, I am confident that I can run such programs in the future, on appropriate hardware.

(Note how the thread is about digital, not physical, things.)

CivBase 130 days ago [-]
Do you have any examples of digital media/apps in open formats which are no longer accessible?
reverendsteveii 130 days ago [-]
everything digital is infinitely replicable and can be stored indefinitely. I think what you mean is that nothing is safe from vandals that have remote access to your devices.
130 days ago [-]
eschulz 130 days ago [-]
Yeah, don't have high expectations for things you pay for but don't own. It's a sad truth, but I've accepted it (I also bought some dvds in 2024 which is something I never thought I'd do again).
rerdavies 130 days ago [-]
Not sure about DVDs, but CDs weren't designed to last longer than 10 years. Most of my CD collection has physically rotted. Because I was using Windows Media Player and iTunes, I ripped most of collection in M4A format, which, at the time, was better than MP3. A couple of years ago, I decided that I wanted to re-rip my CD collection (some 200 odd CDs) in FLAC format instead of m4a format (don't ask). And some significant portion (50%?) of the new FLAC rips were missing tracks due to physical read errors on the original CD media.
mixmastamyk 130 days ago [-]
My 80s CDs are fine. Just played my first CD, Bryan Adams and it sounds like the day I bought it. Maybe your environment or drive are factors?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reckless_(Bryan_Adams_album)

genewitch 130 days ago [-]
i think various pressing factories had different tolerances for oxygen ingress, which, iirc, the oxidization is what actually kills optical media.
beretguy 130 days ago [-]
Completely unrelated and misleading comparison. A proper comparison to the issue with apps is if Amazon employee would walk into your house and physically destroyed CDs. CDs rotting is a force of nature, not corporate greed/incompetence.
reaperducer 130 days ago [-]
[flagged]
999900000999 130 days ago [-]
If I want to spin up a CI/CD pipeline to build an Android app that takes 30 seconds. I send you or anyone else the link and you can test it out.

With Apple I need to beg for my dev account to be approved, pay 100$ a year, and submit it via test flight.

If more than X numbers of people use it , ohh no I have to publish it via the app store. If it pleases King Cook, may I publish a game for my friends to play.

Google is starting to restrict Android too, custom system roms aren't as popular anymore, but theirs still a sense it's my phone.

With Apple, it's still Apple's phone, you've just purchased a revokable license to use it in accordance with the terms you agreed to.

lukeschlather 130 days ago [-]
> It's bad enough that I've had at least a dozen apps disappear from my iDevices over the years because the companies running them went out of business, pivoted, exited, or otherwise disappeared or stopped supporting their product. The last thing I want is for an entire app store's worth of apps to suddenly go away.

This happens just the same on iOS when Apple drops support for a device. First-party stores are not a defense against this. It's theoretically easier to plan for, but you're still at the mercy of Apple's support window.

Once upon a time you could download an app and it would work indefinitely, but that's not the way any modern app-store based systems really work. What Amazon is doing here is probably less impactful than when Apple kills certain APIs and breaks a bunch of apps with an update. (I'm certain Amazon and Apple both do estimated math about the number of devices/apps/users they're breaking, and I'm also certain just based on volume that Amazon is breaking fewer people/apps with this change than Apple does routinely.)

thesuitonym 130 days ago [-]
It's my understanding that the majority of people who want alternative app stores for iOS don't necessarily want something like an Amazon App Store, but rather something like F-Droid.

I would love to be able to install weird, open source apps on my iPhone, the same way I could on my Android phones.

10729287 130 days ago [-]
Totally agree, but unfortunately people (forgive and) forget and that's why those companies keep on doing this.

I myself forgot Microsoft once (cough) sold e-books.

Uvix 130 days ago [-]
Did Microsoft ever sell directly? They had Microsoft Reader but I thought all the stores were third-party.

However, Amazon did at one point in time sell ebooks in multiple formats pre-Kindle, one of which was Microsoft Reader. (I assume the others were PDF and Mobipocket.) So they have form for closing up shop and killing access to purchases like this.

evilduck 130 days ago [-]
PlaysForSure was also a great name.
kstrauser 130 days ago [-]
Bonus points if it had been accurate.
CivBase 130 days ago [-]
I don't follow this logic. Amazon did something bad on their app store so now walled gardens are good?
reaperducer 130 days ago [-]
I don't follow this logic. Amazon did something bad on their app store so now walled gardens are good?

No, the logic is that several large companies (Amazon, Apple, Microsoft) have done bad things on their app store, so no stores can be trusted. But for me, I trust a big name store more than I trust an small unknown store.

CivBase 130 days ago [-]
I'm not sure what "small unknown" stores you might be referring to. Surely Amazon qualifies as a "big name" store same as Apple or Google, right? Clearly this event shows a big name is not an indication of consumer protection.
reaperducer 130 days ago [-]
Surely Amazon qualifies as a "big name" store same as Apple or Google, right?

Yes. That's why I listed it right next to Apple and Microsoft in my response.

https://www.rif.org

CivBase 130 days ago [-]
Yeah I read that. Your comment about "small unknown stores" threw me off because none of the parties involved with this story are small so I'm not sure what it has to do with the discussion.
130 days ago [-]
9question1 130 days ago [-]
Walled gardens are good because if you insist on picking your fruits only from the wilderness due to moral principles you're gonna get mauled by a bear some time. Sure, you might prioritize feeling morally superior, but the majority of society is more practical
Shawnecy 130 days ago [-]
This is an absurd false dichotomy. You can pick fruits from the wilderness and not get mauled by bears. Using apps not in walled gardens has nothing to do with attempts to feel morally superior.
jasonjayr 130 days ago [-]
You teach people to stay the hell away from bears, and everyone is better for it.
jmb99 130 days ago [-]
So the moral here is, only use alternative app stores that are run by companies larger than Amazon?
CivBase 130 days ago [-]
Isn't the better analogy that you insist on being able to get fruits from anywhere - including neighboring towns or the wild - and not just the local marketplace?

Yeah I could get mauled by a bear if I get my fruits from the wild. But that's probably not a risk with the vendor from a neighboring town.

And if there's a fruit I can only get from the wild, who are you to tell me I can't have it? Maybe I get mauled by a bear. Maybe I get robbed in the neighboring town. But what else am I to do when what I want isn't available at the local marketplace?

mattl 130 days ago [-]
Or when Microsoft closed their music store.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSN_Music

andrewaylett 130 days ago [-]
Curious timing, what with the EU DMA opening Play Store to make it easier for people to install it.

Of course, Amazon are subject to the DMA and (I suspect) not overall a fan, so maybe it makes sense for them to not make use of the capabilities it allows?

rs186 130 days ago [-]
Did Amazon start a new round of cost cutting, layoffs or something? Yesterday they discontinued Chime. As if Amazon is doubling down on cutting "unnecessary" services
specialp 130 days ago [-]
Everyone at Amazon (The only company I have seen using it) hated using Chime, and it wasn't at all on the level of competitors. So I think it was just an unsuccessful product.
imurray 130 days ago [-]
Every product has its hate, but everyone is rarely true. Personally (no longer at Amazon) I was impressed by Chime. It was simple, but rock solid, handling large calls well. Teams is still worse for me (>9 people display is bad, even in MS Edge, when on Linux). Zoom has a finicky interface.

Early in the pandemic I had to use many different systems as an academic, when lots of different contacts pivoted online in different ways. Chime was the least of my problems; it just worked when many other systems struggled.

I liked the Chime meeting/calendar integration at Amazon that could ring everyone at the start of the meeting, meaning that most meetings started promptly.

scarface_74 130 days ago [-]
I was also at Amazon (AWS ProServe) we also hated Chime. AWS internally moved to Slack and only used Chime to schedule customer calls.
dowager_dan99 130 days ago [-]
that's pretty funny. I had no idea Amazon had their own product in this space until my company did an engagement with ProServe.
malfist 130 days ago [-]
Slack huddles use chime under the hood.
vel0city 130 days ago [-]
According to current press releases, the Chime SDK isn't going away just the Chime service sold directly to customers.

> Note: This does not impact the availability of the Amazon Chime SDK service.

https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/messaging-and-targeting/update-...

viraptor 130 days ago [-]
I could not find a reliable source for this. Got a link?
malfist 130 days ago [-]
Right on slack's webpage.

https://slack.com/blog/news/slack-aws-drive-development-agil...

Unofficially, this agreement happened at the same time Amazon started using slack internally

radioblahaj 130 days ago [-]
https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/business-productivity/customers...
darkwater 130 days ago [-]
So, what are AWS TAMs going to use to have meetings with customers? Chime was really awful.
mh- 130 days ago [-]
First thing I thought of as well. Every time I go to join an AWS call, in my head I'm thinking "oh, right. ugh."

Hopefully they just adopt Zoom and not something even more obscure.

mdaniel 130 days ago [-]
Allegedly, along with Microsoft 365 (my condolences to them) https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-zoom-main-meeting-app...
accelbred 130 days ago [-]
On the other hand, at Amazon, people I know like Chime. Sad its going away.
93po 130 days ago [-]
i had to use it when amazon was a client of my employer and it was hot garbage in my opinion
snotrockets 130 days ago [-]
AWS (which isn't Amazon, really, even if they share resources), used to bake the cost of keeping the lights on practically forever, or at least until the last user churns. The product may not see improvements if it didn't get traction, but you could bank on being able to use it forever.

When they did decide to kill something, like non-VPC EC2, you'd get the notice a literal decade ahead. For this specific example, sunset started end of '13, with the last instance shut off mid '23.

This all started to change a couple of years ago, when they became much more aggressive with doing the Googles and just killing a thing with a few months of a warning. Pity.

ravenstine 130 days ago [-]
They're also getting rid of the "Download & Transfer via USB" option for Kindle books, which was the last available option for directly removing DRM. But it does also mean that owners of older Kindle devices without WiFI are basically screwed.
OJFord 130 days ago [-]
I don't know if I'd reach that conclusion because of Chime - there's also Blink & Ring, a lot of overlap and confusion in cameras & security.
dowager_dan99 130 days ago [-]
Chime is their online meetings app, not their doorbell camera
OJFord 130 days ago [-]
Ah I was thinking of Ring Chime. (I'm sure there is a third overlapping with Ring & Blink though, can't recall name.)
shepherdjerred 130 days ago [-]
Thank god chime is gone
mattmaroon 130 days ago [-]
All 6 people who used Amazon app store on a non-Fire tablet must be very upset!
bambax 130 days ago [-]
I'm one of them. DJI "pro" remotes are Android devices that for some reason are completely un-googled but can run the Amazon app store; if you want to run, say, Litchy on such a device (an alternative to DJI Fly app), Amazon is (was) the only option.

Now there appears to be no option left.

darkwater 130 days ago [-]
Is sideloading possible?
bambax 130 days ago [-]
Yes, kind of, but then maps don't work, and the main function of the app is to program drone missions on a map...

(To be fair, it's possible to program missions on the web and synchronize the account with the app to send the missions on the device; but having no map at all on the device is still a big problem.)

gruez 130 days ago [-]
Use Aurora store?
mattmaroon 130 days ago [-]
Oh wow! Hopefully DJI will address this.
rerdavies 130 days ago [-]
Now all we need to do is find the OTHER five people. :-P
starfox64_ 130 days ago [-]
Couldn't people move over to another app store like F-Droid?
alok-g 130 days ago [-]
As far as I know:

Most app available on Amazon's app store are already available via Google Play Store anyways. Rather, most developers have deserted the Amazon's store and the versions available there are outdated by years. I noted that Apps Amazon released for their own external or internal events like AWS re:Invent were only available via Google's Play Store and not Amazon's own.

The challenge is that many apps on Amazon's app store are tied to the app store. I once tried disabling Amazon's app store app, and noted that the apps installed stopped working (until the app store was enabled again). My immediate conclusion was that I would not want to rely on these apps or Amazon's app store. The developers may not have any incentive to update their apps versions on Amazon's store to remove the dependence on the latter, and nor they may have any to allow the paid users just install those apps from Google's play store without paying afresh.

nguyenkien 130 days ago [-]
F-Droid only accept opensource app.
arielcostas 130 days ago [-]
You can host your own repo (or someone else can) and just add it to the app
jeroenhd 130 days ago [-]
Adding a new source for every app becomes tiresome, especially when switching devices.

I do see potential for a closed source repo managed like an app store, but adding a repo for every app adds unnecessary security risks (as the app specific repo can contain any number of apps).

mdaniel 130 days ago [-]
> adding a repo for every app adds unnecessary security risks

Could you speak more to your security concerns about adding repos? To the very best of my knowledge it doesn't auto-download from all the repos, that would be crazy, and it for sure doesn't auto-install from them

jeroenhd 126 days ago [-]
When you add a random repo, that repo can list any number of apps with any number of properties. For instance, you could've added the Guardian Project repo and later search for "Firefox" (an app that one would expect to find on something like F-Droid). Firefox isn't on F-Droid, but the Guardian Project can add it any time they want, add in whatever viruses or trackers they want, and serve it up without you ever knowing you downloaded it from an unofficial source. You'd have to spot the source name listed above the install button, but that name comes from the source itself and there's little preventing someone from calling their repo "default app source" or something similarly benign.

Nothing gets auto downloaded, but all of the sudden you need to be very wary of what apps you download from what repos, and that kind of threat fatigue will lead to infections for even the most diligent users.

That's not to say I think the concept of adding repos is bad, the unfortunate truth is just that adding repos comes with a bunch of implications that many users are likely to be unprepared for. It downgrades F-Droid from "a project with centralized management that tries its best to remove malicious apps" to "downloading APK files from random websites (now with auto update)".

anticensor 130 days ago [-]
Hmm, maybe someone could start a F-Droid repository that accepts nonfree apps from everyone.
eek2121 130 days ago [-]
They used to give away premium apps like Epic does on PC, so even I have used them.
mdaniel 130 days ago [-]
Speaking of, I recently learned that Epic has started doing that on Android, too, but you have to sideload their .apk because of Google Hate: https://store.epicgames.com/en-US/mobile

I was initially confused because I thought they were just pushing a mobile access pathway for the normal Epic store, and I had no interest in that, but Bloons TD 6 is pretty fun, so I was willing to give it a shot to see what they'll give away next month https://store.epicgames.com/en-US/mobile#:~:text=Free%20Give...

matt_heimer 130 days ago [-]
It wasn't just devices running Android natively, if you wanted to run Android apps on Windows you might have used the Amazon Appstore with the Windows Subsystem for Android which Microsoft is discontinuing.

It is likely that Microsoft's decision lead to this.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/android/wsa/

david_allison 130 days ago [-]
> Amazon Appstore will continue to be available elsewhere, including on Fire TV and Fire Tablet devices.
rob74 130 days ago [-]
Well, it'd better continue to be available, seeing that Amazon's devices don't support the Google Play store...
ignoramous 130 days ago [-]
> Amazon's devices don't support the Google Play store...

FireOS devices aren't certified by Google and so, they do not come with "Gapps" (including the Play Store) preinstalled. Even if they were, Amazon might have some reservations about preinstalling Gapps (which run with higher than normal privileges), effectively letting Google get hands on its user's purchasing habits.

All that to say, this is a business limitation not a technical one.

See also: Google's iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6582494 (2014).

gruez 130 days ago [-]
It might not be "supported", but I thought you could easily sideload play store and play services? You don't even need to muck around with rooting or even adb.
password4321 130 days ago [-]
I wouldn't call sideloading the play store and services "easy", especially for Kindle Kids/FreeTime profiles.
bdavbdav 130 days ago [-]
Not at all easy. It’s a PITA using all sorts of odd sources.
gruez 130 days ago [-]
It's literally downloading a few apks and installing them. You don't even need to use adb. You can do it all within the preloaded browser that's on the tablet.

https://www.howtogeek.com/232726/how-to-install-the-google-p...

bdavbdav 130 days ago [-]
I don’t remember it being that easy when I did it 3-4 years ago. I was also a bit uncomfortable downloading the google support libraries from APKmirror, as my life is on my google account. IIRC the APKs were unsigned.
dsr_ 130 days ago [-]
I have two Kindle Fire tablets (they're low-quality as general purpose tablets, but cheap and good for reading comics or books) and both have Google Play on them.

Mind you, I had to sideload it for both of them.

metalliqaz 130 days ago [-]
I did that too but it turned out to be just too much trouble. Play store kept trying to update the handful of apps that exist in both Amazon's and Google's ecosystems, and it completely them.
alok-g 130 days ago [-]
While this would negatively affect some of the apps I am using, I am overall glad Amazon is closing this. They should close all things they have done that lower the quality bar and more importantly, make sure the leaders in particular learn some hard lessons.
TomMasz 130 days ago [-]
The Amazon Appstore is a steaming puddle of absolute crap for the most part. I have a Fire tablet I play some simple games on, they're all chock-full of ads. Very few mainstream apps are available, though plenty of cheap knockoffs of those apps are. If you want something good, it's easiest to grab the .apk and sideload it. There are ways to install the Play Store but they're likely beyond most of the Fire's userbase. Regular Android users won't notice or miss this nor should they.

If I needed a tablet for anything serious, I'd buy an iPad or Pixel Tablet, both of which come with a real app store.

devinprater 130 days ago [-]
Ah, fond memories of using it on the BraillePlus 18, an old, discontinued Android-based Braille device that, since it didn't have a screen, couldn't be Play certified. Of course this was around Android 4.
portaouflop 130 days ago [-]
Just stop giving Amazon money—at this point you can only blame yourself.
reaperducer 130 days ago [-]
Just stop giving Amazon money—at this point you can only blame yourself.

Done. Mostly.

I dropped Prime last year, and have been surprised by the results.

1. I don't buy a bunch of pointless plastic crap that I don't need anymore. It was the thrill/affirmation/addiction of near-instant gratification delivery that made me buy stuff on impulse.

2. I've saved a bunch of money because of #1.

3. Unless it's same-day delivery, "Prime" delivery is meaningless. Even with Prime, about 80% of my same-day, next-day or second-day deliveries were delayed. A couple of times for a week or more. I can't count the number of times the Amazon.com delivery tracker told me "You're next!" with a little cartoon truck on a map next to my home. Then an hour later, "We're doing a few more deliveries first." And then "Delivery date unknown."

I do still occasionally buy from Amazon, when there's something I can't get locally. But without the instant gratification, I buy much less. And sometimes the things I do buy arrive with the same speed of Prime delivery anyway.

vel0city 130 days ago [-]
So you've pretty much dropped Amazon the ecommerce store/platform. But what about any online services you consume? So many things online these days have some amount of AWS hosting involved.
reaperducer 130 days ago [-]
I can only control my actions. I cannot control what other people do.
vel0city 130 days ago [-]
I fully agree. Just pointing out other things to think about when trying to avoid Amazon. Good luck on your journey.
fuomag9 130 days ago [-]
If I need to to buy electronics here in Italy I either go on aliexpress (and goodbye warranty) or Amazon. There’s no Best Buy or Newegg here to go to
jszymborski 130 days ago [-]
Would Euronics work for you?

https://www.euronics.it/

fuomag9 128 days ago [-]
Unfortunately they all suck, this is the "gpu selection" https://www.euronics.it/informatica/componenti-per-pc/schede...

They literally sell only 4 cards.

dowager_dan99 130 days ago [-]
feels like you've identified a market for a Italian Newegg....
makeitdouble 130 days ago [-]
I wonder if you could live a week mostly the same way you do now without touching any service that pays Amazon.
nunez 130 days ago [-]
The way I look at it is that boycotting Amazon is similar to boycotting petroleum. Petroleum is in the supply chain of everything that we use, but energy companies would definitely feel the impacts of everyone getting EVs.

AWS is everywhere, but Amazon Retail is a separate entity and would definitely feel the crunch of even 30% of its users deciding to shop elsewhere or cancelling Prime.

(I cancelled my Prime membership a year and a half ago and do almost all of my shopping directly from manufacturers or from smaller stores. I spent thousands of dollars per year with them.

I used Walmart Lists to replace my Amazon subscribe and save purchases for a year but was finally able to, mostly, move off of that earlier this year. As it happens, HEB, a grocery chain in Texas, has just about everything I need!

I resisted doing this earlier because I thought I needed one/two-day delivery; I wrote posts on here defending this "need." It turns out that, no, I can wait a few days, and, yes, UPS, USPS, and FedEx are significantly more reliable than Amazon Flex.)

makeitdouble 130 days ago [-]
Not disagreeing, but I see a gap between the reason and the means of the boycott.

On petroleum, my main beef is not the chemical but how most behemoths managing the market are screwing with our health and the planet. There is an alternate world where BP is not a bunch of psychopaths and we have stronger environmental regulations.

In that respect, getting electricty from BP instead of oil from BP isn't that much of a difference in my book, I don't believe they manage their solar farm better than their oil tankers.

That's the lens I see for Amazon: if we're pissed at them because they killed their App store, does keeping AWS customers afloat really help on the moral standpoint ?

I know we can't stick on principle on everything, I just see the very point of the boycott to be very blurry and not reaching it's target.

bogwog 130 days ago [-]
Is that really so hard? I cancelled my Prime subscription years ago and haven't missed it. Walmart, Target, Costco, BestBuy, HomeDepot, etc haven't gone anywhere. Smaller specialty retailers usually sell on their own website with shipping too. Plus, one genuine advantage the other retailers have over Amazon is that you can (usually) trust you're getting something of reasonable quality, whereas Amazon feels like an AI generated flea market filled with garbage quality Aliexpress drop shipping schemes.

I thought losing two day shipping would suck, but it really hasn't. Most of the big retailers (in my area anyways) end up delivering online orders in two days or less anyways, and the delivery fee is free if your order is over a certain size (usually around $35)

De-googling or De-appleing is hard, but De-amazoning (at least for me) was trivial and anticlimactic.

Larrikin 130 days ago [-]
I cancelled my subscription and found I didn't really miss it that much, but could not find a good replacement for semi bulk or bulk purchases. Usually one to one items are priced the same elsewhere. But if I want to buy in bulk I have to go to Costco, but they are only good if I'm fine with anything, but out of luck for specific brands or any item they deem seasonal. They stopped carrying the only lotion I like replacing it with a different brand, the lens cleaners are now terrible, and they haven't had grape seed oil for months.

There used to be a bulk site I was on before COVID, but they were bought and shut down.

develoopest 130 days ago [-]
> any service that pays Amazon

If we go literal with this, it gets far more complicated counting Amazon web services

dowager_dan99 130 days ago [-]
It's not reasonable or effective to delve into the private supply chain, IMO. Don't let perfect be the enemy of better.
makeitdouble 130 days ago [-]
You're choosing to avoid Amazon on moral principles.

It's kinda relevant that these principles only apply to services that have the Amazon logo, and not where more than half of Amazon's profit is coming from.

Hypothetically you might be bringing more business to Amazon through any of their AWS customers than by buying your USB cables on the storefront.

PS: I don't have a good answer to this, but boycott and "vote with your wallet" kind of actions have became a very complex thing IMHO.

dowager_dan99 130 days ago [-]
I spend $2/month on AWS and could change this, but use nothing else that I can think of; is this really that hard?
sirjaz 130 days ago [-]
This explains why Windows wsa is going away, since it was tied to this.
develoopest 130 days ago [-]
My bet is that Amazon is working on a new OS that's not compatible with Android
jfengel 130 days ago [-]
Or is it the other way around: they're giving up on "FireOS" and just going to let Google do the work?
doubled112 130 days ago [-]
Good idea. Most people would probably be happier on a more stock Android with the Google Play Store.
agos 130 days ago [-]
my bet is they fired a few too people and now maintaining it is a burden
Apocryphon 130 days ago [-]
Big news if fifteen years ago
Hackbraten 130 days ago [-]
Why would they?
develoopest 130 days ago [-]
Full chain control, I suppose, there are rumours about Vega OS. https://www.androidauthority.com/android-14-based-fire-tvs-3...

If that's the case, it's a bad idea, Amazon is not prepared to maintain their own OS.

130 days ago [-]
micromacrofoot 130 days ago [-]
they'd probably be better off setting a pile of money on fire instead
kccqzy 130 days ago [-]
At this rate, in a year of two, Amazon will have a reputation for killing products just like Google. It was Chime yesterday and now this.

Personally I still haven't gotten over Amazon's killing of the magazine subscription service.

BuckRogers 130 days ago [-]
Not a problem for me, I only took the free apps from Amazon's store. If the same app was available on Play, I bought it there. It never made sense to me to pay for an app that was not on the native appstore and while I do have a Fire tablet and multiple FireTV Cubes, I was always more vested into the non-Amazon side of Android for phones.
130 days ago [-]
jjbinx007 130 days ago [-]
Funnily enough I installed this recently to install a game I bought years ago.

I tried searching for it and found several outright scam apps. I figured Amazon had given up with it.

znpy 130 days ago [-]
Is amazon essentially going through a firing spree? Between rto friction and dropping stuff it looks like it wants to shed a lot of people from its payroll.
yobid20 130 days ago [-]
I didnt even know this existed.
dvh 130 days ago [-]
But Java doesn't even have union types
powerofmAnNnyYy 130 days ago [-]
Stopped "purchasing" from them after i found out they wrapped their whole Store crap around apps and repackaged them.
yapyap 130 days ago [-]
What took them so long
bigbacaloa 130 days ago [-]
[dead]
IlikeKitties 130 days ago [-]
[flagged]
belter 130 days ago [-]
https://www.failory.com/amazon