The thing that really gets me about this one is that surely you can easily just delete the data after you've verified someone? But instead they decided to keep 153,347,439 of them.
wiredbox 2 minutes ago [-]
Which is why you need GDPR equivalent in the US…
chezelenkoooo 50 minutes ago [-]
Any kind of lending facility, for example, is required, by law, to retain identity documents for an extended period of time - we're talking around five years _post_ account closure.
So most businesses are not permitted to just delete the data.
michaelt 11 minutes ago [-]
Back In The Day, if somewhere like a car hire agency wanted to record proof of identity they'd photocopy your driver's license on paper, and store it in a filing cabinet. The computer record of a customer's account would just say "driving license checked, on file at branch #1234"
Security-wise this comes with obvious downsides - but as protection against cyberattack, it's pretty much the gold standard.
I believe we need to criminalize possession of the data, with statutory damages per violation.
akshatjiwan 2 hours ago [-]
Some laws for protection do exist — eg requirement that sensitive data needs to be kept on systems that have been pen tested. But those laws are hardly ever followed and authorities have no real way to check if the 'protected' status of digital storage is actually maintained. What's worse is there are actually voices inside the government that are calling for an end on encryption stating that it encourages criminal activity.
CamperBob2 57 minutes ago [-]
Exactly. Personal data should be treated like radioactive material. Strictly regulated to such an extent that no one wants anything to do with it unless they absolutely have to use it in the course of their business. After that, their primary concern should be how to dispose of it quickly and safely.
vrganj 1 hours ago [-]
Not quite the same, but the GDPR gives you a right to erasure.
OKRainbowKid 11 minutes ago [-]
And afaik it also quite strictly regulates which data you're allowed to collect and process and for which reasons.
But on hackernews I feel it is more often than not represented as a symbol of EU bureaucracy, being to blame for cookie banners, and/or designed to extort money from poor helpless trillion dollar US corporations.
DANmode 2 hours ago [-]
Negligence is already illegal.
Just locate a prosecutor.
DaSHacka 7 minutes ago [-]
I'll sleep so much better at night when the company that'll leak my Social Security Number on the internet due to hosting a backup of a database that's assessible publicly gets fined $0.30 per SSN leaked.
Hell, the execs may even briefly mention it once in the bi-hourly meeting about tomorrow's meeting's meeting, chuckling before moving onto the next slide.
maccam912 3 hours ago [-]
It's not clear that this came from a point in time dump, but like it has been getting harvested by someone for awhile. They may be deleting it, but by then a copy is made? Speculation after reading the article but that's what it sounded like to me.
Nition 3 hours ago [-]
Good point, "we have been continuously exfiltrating new data for over a year into our private database". I missed that line on first read.
samlinnfer 3 hours ago [-]
It's obvious they are keeping them all. 150 million didn't get all re-scanned at once.
applfanboysbgon 38 minutes ago [-]
It's actually not obvious. Krebs mentioned 400,000 new licenses being uploaded in a day after he was made aware of the site, and the verification service itself claims 20 million per month, both of which check out and add up to ~150 million over a year of the hacker's claimed continuous exfiltration, even if the verification company deleted the data shortly after it was scanned.
Which is to say: deleting the data is not enough. As much as possible, this data should not be collected in the first place, and if it absolutely must be collected, it needs to be handled with serious security practices that don't enable exfiltration to be an ongoing process for a year. People keep saying this because it's true: processing personal data needs to be as expensive and regulated as processing radioactive waste if we want any hope of our private lives remaining private.
samlinnfer 3 hours ago [-]
The whole point is they keep it forever. You think any id verification services actually delete the data?
Nition 3 hours ago [-]
I mean, just because all your friends are jumping off a cliff...
mindslight 2 hours ago [-]
It feels like we need to tweak the analogy for the surveillance industry. Something more like if all of your friends are pushing people off a cliff...
kevin_thibedeau 3 hours ago [-]
If you and your friends are all sociopaths, you're going to feel left out if you don't join in on the cliff jumping.
Aurornis 2 hours ago [-]
The last time I had to read a law about ID verification it required keeping that data for a number of days. They wanted you to have it available in case something happened and the police opened an investigation.
Combine that with a service that is compromised unknowingly for a long period of time and the attackers can siphon out a lot of IDs. Even a service which didn't retain IDs could leak a lot of data if the attackers tapped the verification server and exfiltrated all IDs as they passed through
trollbridge 2 hours ago [-]
One of the more absurd things these ID verification services do is ask for a front and back scan of your licence and then use an app that has you tilt your head around in camera.
They obviously do not have actual access to the original photos, so a sophisticated attacker can simply forge the whole thing, but the rest of us have to update very detailed facial information + government ID documents that we all know are going to get retained indefinitely.
Aurornis 2 hours ago [-]
The ID scans in the article weren't submitted by people from their phones. They include IR and UV scans, too. The database might contain multiple sources but at least the big one appears to have a lot of IDs from physical locations where you hand your ID over the counter to someone to scan.
latchkey 2 hours ago [-]
s/retained/leaked/
trollbridge 2 hours ago [-]
Well, yeah. Retention eventually means leaking.
I deliberately throw away logs, customer data, etc once it ages last a certain amount simply so I can stop being responsible for it.
tgsovlerkhgsel 2 hours ago [-]
If there was some kind of fixed minimum compensation - even a single dollar per affected person - and strict liability (doesn't matter how you allegedly did everything to protect the data, if it leaked it's on you), companies would suddenly be very motivated to a) secure b) minimize the data they hold.
Without penalties, e.g. Hertz has little reason not to keep 10+ years of drivers licenses just in case they come in useful in a fraud case or as ML training data later. If having the data was a $153 million liability, they'd think twice.
MaKey 27 minutes ago [-]
I'm in Europe and got ~$350 because of three data leaks. The amount per instance was vastly different though - $255, $80 and $15.
tencentshill 2 hours ago [-]
Make Customer Data a Liability
fishfasell 4 hours ago [-]
So an online identity verification service had millions of IDs exfiltrated, many of which were linked to marijuana dispensaries? Oh man, my ID is definitely out there, shit.
3eb7988a1663 3 hours ago [-]
153 million puts them at roughly 1/2 of all Americans.
Naturally these "identity verification" companies are a joke that have no security and gladly piss our PII into the wind without taking the job seriously.
ornornor 1 hours ago [-]
I once tried to reach one of the two Canadian background check companies a prospective employer wanted to use to check me. I eventually found their privacy and security phone number. It had a poorly recorded voicemail to leave a message and they’d call back to answer questions. It’s been 12 years. They haven’t called me back yet but I’m assured they take privacy very seriously.
I didn’t go through with that part of my application and didn’t keep the job.
mulmen 3 hours ago [-]
I had two active Clear subscriptions at the same time. How did an identity verification company not know both accounts were the same person? They were both using the same credit card!
What does an "identity verification" company even do?
toast0 3 hours ago [-]
Clear takes your money and zips you through the airport checkpoint line. Because terrorists wouldn't spend money or time to get through the lines faster?
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3RTB297 2 hours ago [-]
From the article, it's some national-chain hotels, car rentals, casinos, dispensaries, and a couple maybes like if you bought alcohol at Target and they scanned your ID or sent something via FedEx that required an ID scan. Your ID might be scanned and in there multiple times.
wahern 4 hours ago [-]
Your ID and PII was likely already on the black market, the only question is accessibility and price. You can't exactly advertise on Reddit or sell to every two-bit identity thief and not expect heat.
ChrisMarshallNY 56 minutes ago [-]
> vendors who collect this sensitive data need to be held to a higher standard.
They already do that, in Europe. I assume that it works, as I don’t hear about this level of stuff, over there (though it could be because I am not plugged into European news).
One thing about the US, is that companies that have the means, can afford regulatory capture, or even strait-up bribery. This is often magnified, at the local level. I am constantly hearing anecdotal stories about the absurd levels of naked corruption, in my town. Much of this, comes from my friends, who own businesses.
The more plugged-in we are, the more access these small, corrupt municipalities have; so a bribed bureaucrat in a small town, could have access to a national database. We’re hearing a lot about small-town cops, accessing Flock camera data.
michaelt 55 seconds ago [-]
> They already do that, in Europe. I assume that it works, as I don’t hear about this level of stuff, over there
Often it's straight up the same companies - a Brit's PII is held by Experian, Equifax and Transunion just like an American's is.
And while the rules are strict and complicated enough to be very inconvenient for anyone who tries to follow them to the letter, the fines for even the worst fuck-ups are trivial. We're talking a $5 billion company giving away 15 million people's credit reports, and getting fined $15 million.
thesmtsolver2 50 minutes ago [-]
Ahem
Some Interrail travellers told to cancel passports as hacked data posted online
Bankrupt this company to serve as a warning to others that hang on to way too much data.
walrus01 2 hours ago [-]
In addition, actual federal prison time for the C-levels would help as a deterrent to future fuckery.
bilbo0s 17 minutes ago [-]
This is the actual answer. Things like this need to be a criminal offense.
Monetary fines have a tendency to simply be modeled in as a cost of doing business. Going to prison is far more effective when the goal is to concentrate minds.
b3lvedere 1 hours ago [-]
At least reimburse everybody for all the costs involving getting the old drivers license invalidated and apply for a new one. Unfortunately that will not cause to magically dissapear the rest of your harvested profile.
cute_boi 4 hours ago [-]
I don’t know why the government allows websites and these craps to collect sensitive information like driver’s licenses and Social Security numbers. They could simply provide an API that allows websites to verify someone’s identity using a zero-trust approach without exposing the actual documents.
stephbook 2 hours ago [-]
In Germany, everyone's national ID – which everyone has – has a NFC chip to securely identify you digitally. It was introduced 15 years ago and can be read by any smartphone. (It does use trusted third parties which only share the requested data though.)
You'd think that 80 million people from a rich first world country would be enough of a market to use this.
No, we're showing our faces and waving our IDs in front of the camera while an Indian half-asses the identity check like everyone else.
zdragnar 4 hours ago [-]
You've already answered your own question. They don't provide an API with zero trust. Many services are legally required to collect the information anyway. Telehealth billing through insurance, for example, require it for the old "red flag rule" intended to prevent insurance and Medicaid fraud.
So, these providers all do the only thing they can short of going out of business: they use third party providers of identity verification.
charcircuit 2 hours ago [-]
Because physical business are also allowed to collect this information.
jakevoytko 4 hours ago [-]
As always, friendly reminder to lock your credit and enable your mobile carrier's protections against SIM swapping
fishfasell 4 hours ago [-]
Excellent advice. A compromised phone number is an absolute nightmare, most MFAs default to SMS as a last resort. I lost my Okta verify login at work since I transferred phones, thought I'd need a ticket with our ID team but turns out my phone number is sufficient. Wasn't thrilled about that.
Razengan 35 minutes ago [-]
How about probing the laws (and politicians who pushed for them) about making IDs mandatory for using the internet?
tgrowazay 3 hours ago [-]
> Update, 8:56 p.m. ET: Shortly after this story was published, the Nexus identity theft service website vanished from the darkweb, replacing its login page with a plain text message that reads, “This service is no longer available.”
applfanboysbgon 28 minutes ago [-]
RIP hacker guy. He probably would've gotten away with it if he didn't attract Krebs' attention by making him a free sample, but now he's fucked since Krebs tracked down the source of the leaks where most other people would not have cared enough.
FpUser 4 hours ago [-]
So they want to see my driver's license "to make the world safer" when in reality all they do is facilitating mass fraud. When the fuck will those brainless infusoria will get punished 9fat chance).
htrp 2 hours ago [-]
It was probably Hertz that was the source of the breaches.
tgsovlerkhgsel 2 hours ago [-]
Hertz or the company Hertz uses
rio517 2 hours ago [-]
I am so jaded, i cannot help jumping to the conlusion that to me they wanted to data to continue voter supression efforts.
GolfPopper 1 hours ago [-]
Nah. It they want to make sure that Trump gets his cut from the sale.
So most businesses are not permitted to just delete the data.
Security-wise this comes with obvious downsides - but as protection against cyberattack, it's pretty much the gold standard.
Just locate a prosecutor.
Hell, the execs may even briefly mention it once in the bi-hourly meeting about tomorrow's meeting's meeting, chuckling before moving onto the next slide.
Which is to say: deleting the data is not enough. As much as possible, this data should not be collected in the first place, and if it absolutely must be collected, it needs to be handled with serious security practices that don't enable exfiltration to be an ongoing process for a year. People keep saying this because it's true: processing personal data needs to be as expensive and regulated as processing radioactive waste if we want any hope of our private lives remaining private.
Combine that with a service that is compromised unknowingly for a long period of time and the attackers can siphon out a lot of IDs. Even a service which didn't retain IDs could leak a lot of data if the attackers tapped the verification server and exfiltrated all IDs as they passed through
They obviously do not have actual access to the original photos, so a sophisticated attacker can simply forge the whole thing, but the rest of us have to update very detailed facial information + government ID documents that we all know are going to get retained indefinitely.
I deliberately throw away logs, customer data, etc once it ages last a certain amount simply so I can stop being responsible for it.
Without penalties, e.g. Hertz has little reason not to keep 10+ years of drivers licenses just in case they come in useful in a fraud case or as ML training data later. If having the data was a $153 million liability, they'd think twice.
Naturally these "identity verification" companies are a joke that have no security and gladly piss our PII into the wind without taking the job seriously.
I didn’t go through with that part of my application and didn’t keep the job.
What does an "identity verification" company even do?
They already do that, in Europe. I assume that it works, as I don’t hear about this level of stuff, over there (though it could be because I am not plugged into European news).
One thing about the US, is that companies that have the means, can afford regulatory capture, or even strait-up bribery. This is often magnified, at the local level. I am constantly hearing anecdotal stories about the absurd levels of naked corruption, in my town. Much of this, comes from my friends, who own businesses.
The more plugged-in we are, the more access these small, corrupt municipalities have; so a bribed bureaucrat in a small town, could have access to a national database. We’re hearing a lot about small-town cops, accessing Flock camera data.
Often it's straight up the same companies - a Brit's PII is held by Experian, Equifax and Transunion just like an American's is.
And while the rules are strict and complicated enough to be very inconvenient for anyone who tries to follow them to the letter, the fines for even the worst fuck-ups are trivial. We're talking a $5 billion company giving away 15 million people's credit reports, and getting fined $15 million.
Some Interrail travellers told to cancel passports as hacked data posted online
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/apr/23/some-inte...
I just don’t hear about it anywhere near as much.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vastaamo_data_breach
Monetary fines have a tendency to simply be modeled in as a cost of doing business. Going to prison is far more effective when the goal is to concentrate minds.
You'd think that 80 million people from a rich first world country would be enough of a market to use this.
No, we're showing our faces and waving our IDs in front of the camera while an Indian half-asses the identity check like everyone else.
So, these providers all do the only thing they can short of going out of business: they use third party providers of identity verification.